Quite interesting video from Mark Rober about bedbugs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JAOTJxYqh8
My grandmother dealt with bedbugs in 1950s Paris. I always thought of them as a thing of the past that couldn't possibly resurface in the present day. Clearly, I was wrong. Given that this is France, the likely solution is to commission a task force to spend five years working on a white paper that ultimately concludes more taxes are needed.
> a thing of the past that couldn't possibly resurface in the present day
What would be stopping them?
I assumed it was cancer causing insecticides like DDT or something.
Indeed, they were on the brink of extinction until the worldwide outlawing of DDT, and have had a huge boom since.
DDT ban is often cited, but it's an insufficient explanation: first of all there are still efficient insecticides available, and bedbugs infestations only reappeared many decades after DDT was banned.
The most important causes is the massive increase in travel/tourism (airbnb is often pointed, but regular hotels are where it started) then come the increasing cost of labor (Baumol's costs disease) + higher safety standards for both the inhabitants and the workers (this includes DDT but not only) + higher living standards (people have bigger apartments with more stuff in it), which makes house decontamination much more expensive that it used to be.
A likely candidate would be modern materials used in mattresses and bedlinen.
Writing this article without mentioning AirBnB is quite the exercise in avoiding talking about root causes.
Did they mention _american_ bedbugs?
airbnb being a really good propagation vector as you cannot have the same grade bug fighting than in a classic hotel.
Basically, all big international tourist destinations are at "risk" of no severe bug control is done (airbnb...).
What are we going to end up with? if hotel syndicates push mandatory severe bug control (aka expensive) in the regulation, that would make 99% of airbnb illegal?
> if hotel syndicates push mandatory severe bug control (aka expensive) in the regulation, that would make 99% of airbnb illegal?
We can but dream.
I get where you're coming from, but the idea that we should all rush to giant globo-monopolies to save us from the complexities of small businesses is just wild and disgusting. This is very much the "Microsoft/Apple, save me from Linux" vibe.
But Airbnb is a giant globo-monopoly.
So the actual choice isnt between globo-monopolies and small business. It's between monopolies that don't spread bed bugs and one that does.
Bit of a facetious take, but I think it has some value: Airbnb isn't a particularly small business, compared to your average hotel.
Almost all US hotels are owned and operated by smaller companies/families. Hilton/marriott/IHG/hyatt/choice/wyndham/etc sell their brand to franchisees.
Airbnb has 8.4 billion in revenue and 16 billion in assets. They are not a "small business." Hilton's revenue is 8.7 billion and they have 15 billion in assets. Hilton also doesn't cause rental and home prices to rise.
People with enough money to buy homes to rent out as Airbnbs can buy or build small hotels with a little extra effort.
> People with enough money to buy homes to rent out as Airbnbs can buy or build small hotels with a little extra effort.
I don’t see how this can be true. A half decent hotel in even cheaper parts of the US is going to cost $100k per key, and in any popular city, multiples more. Plus, if you want to buy a franchise from Hilton/Marriott/Hyatt, they are going to ask one of the owners to already have another hotel as a credit check.
Buying a house or condo, on the other hand, only requires a few hundred thousand, outside of the most expensive areas.
And building a hotel is a completely different ballgame than buying an existing property. Cities long ago stopped approving small motels to be built, and clearing the permits/buying the land/getting a construction loan/ensuring your GC does the job on time is a whole lot of risk.
There is no such thing as severe bed bug control. The only way you know if there are bed bugs (unless it is somehow a severe infestation), is if a guest complains, and then the only thing left to do is call a pest control company and have them do their thing while the room is empty for a couple weeks.
99% of the time, it is only a couple bed bugs, and you are not likely to find them before they bite someone.
Mentioning diseases that spread much faster without personal hygiene, while only mentioning AirBnb-type of “travellers”, is quite an exercise as well.
I’ve seen people with skin diseases, and it is not the type that can afford an AirBnb. It’s rather the type who don’t wash their hands after going to the toilets, because they clean up using the left hand, “so it’s fine”. At adult age. As colleagues.
What about nosocomial infections in our health system, practically unheard of 30 years ago, now very frequent to the point that the national policy is to avoid people spending the night in hospitals at all costs, even if it means sending home at lunch a person who just had surgery for appendicitis; Do they also come from people AirBnb’ing in hospitals?
Is that a rant about immigration again?
Can't be certain, but it would be hilarious if it was, because people from Muslim countries have much higher hand-washing standards than Europeans, for religious reasons.
Your colleagues can’t afford AirBnB? Where do you people work anyway?
Hint: the phrase "you people" can be interpreted as hostile/divisive.
In case English is not your first language...
Hint: your comment can be interpreted as hostile/divisive.
Maybe if you tried hard enough, but a plain reading of his comment would judge it helpful and accurate.
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Bedbugs have been a problem for years in Paris, but of course the government starts to think about it for the Olympics. Regular people can rot in hell for what they care
for sure, public transport would be different if politicians were using it.
Paris subway is and has always been an horrible pathogen nest. My life in the winter changed when i stopped having to use it everyday, i basically stopped being sick.
Now with the record high amount of homeless in the street at the moment i'm pretty skeptical this is going to get any better.
Not the same, but I recently have got problems with moths. So has my parents. This also used to be unusual.
I've just removed that AirBnB weekend in Paris from my things to do this year list :)
It’s not unique to Paris. It is a scourge in the UK as well, and an American friend told me that it was a problem in New York as well (I know, not a great source… I read NYT articles about that but they don’t immediately show up in my history).
We had an in home care nurse who watched our disable infant daughter go on a trip to Abu Dhabi trip, and brought back bed bugs. The nursing company tried to act like this was our responsibility, and tried to act like it was our fault, as if we’d made bedbugs appear ex nihilo.
Luckily a lifetime ago I was a licensed exterminator and got it sorted. Treating for bed bugs is not fun, though, and part of the reason I got out of the pest control game. It involves either laboriously treating with chemicals in hard to reach places or wearing a tin foil suit and literally blasting your bedroom with heat to get it to 140°F (60C) or so to kill all of the bedbugs.
It’s been a few years and I’ve never seen another one, but definitely felt like I dodged a bullet.
Anyone can get bed bugs anytime from anywhere. There is no way to protect against it, outside of not leaving your bedbug free home. I can see the nursing company’s point of view, since it is akin to an act of God. What were they supposed to do? Ban their employees from traveling in their time off?
You can protect against it by leaving your belongings in the hotel bathtub where bedbugs can't get in, or putting possessions in the dryer when you get home from travel. I agree that you're just going to have to accept that nurses might have them; this will reduce the demand for nurses, the same way I won't buy furniture from Goodwill any more.
> Luckily a lifetime ago I was a licensed exterminator and got it sorted.
I have a hunch this might be a very useful and marketable skill in the near future…
Seriously, well done because as you say getting rid of them is no fun.
I've never encountered bedbugs in London or known anyone plagued by them I've been here a decade or so.
I've never encountered them in NYC or Berlin either although I have spent comparatively little time there...anecdotally Paris is certainly an outlier.
>> It is a scourge in the UK as well
Do you mean in AirBnB’s or generally? Fwiw I don’t know or know of anyone in the UK that has ever dealt with bedbugs. They’re a thing I’ve only heard about in TV shows set in NYC.
Last year we were at a very well kept Airbnb in Cornwall that turned out to have been bugs.
Last spring we stayed at an equally nice family place in the black forest (Germany) also with bed bugs.
My brother bought a nice wooden cabinet in London that turned out to be infested.
It's incredibly distressing cuz you don't want to bring them home. And I've spoken with a fair few people since who've had similar experiences in the past few years.
I live in London and had bedbugs in my apartment 2 years ago. I knew what to watch for (colinear musquito bites), so got rid of them at the first sign.
No idea where they came from, though. But the building is old and they might have crawled from a neighbour's bedroom.
> Do you mean in AirBnB’s or generally?
Generally. In any case they get carried very easily in clothes or suitcases and you need only a couple of them to start an infestation somewhere else. If they are in AirBnBs, it means that there are also in a lot of houses.
I got some in a London flat. A friend of mine got some in Manchester. They are not that common, but they are on the rise, which is concerning. It’s like early COVID, nobody has it until everybody does.
See for example https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/19/bedbugs-heat... from a couple of years ago, or https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bed-bugs-epi... .
I live in the UK (north), and I've never in my life heard of anyone dealing with bedbugs here, and can corroborate with the sibling that the only time I've ever heard about them is through US popular culture shows (I thought they were just a warm-climate bug)
We don’t really know why they are coming back. But the fact that they used to be everywhere less than a century ago should make everyone think about protective strategies, instead of thinking that they are someone else’s problem. This is not “lol Paris” (or “lol AirBnB” like some say in other posts), this is a Europe-wide public health problem in the making.
AFAICT the number of infestations grew 65% in a year in the UK. A couple of years at that rate and even if you’ve never seen any yet, you are likely to know them intimately.
Why are you ruling out AirBnB’s popularity as a cause? It seems quite plausible, isn’t it?
Hotels get bed bugs all the time. The cause is people traveling, allowing bed bugs to hitch a ride.
And most hotels have centralized departments for dealing with it, contacts with extermination agencies, and a single large building to treat, and a very very strong incentive to get it done immediately, lest they lose all business and be forced to shut down.
I obviously don't know the specifics but I'd bet Hilton is a million times more effective at pest management than some 60 year old dude who put up his second home for extra income. To whom does the cost of extermination act as a large deterrent?
It’s part of the problem, sure, but only a contributing factor. The story mentions them being found in cinemas and trains, which is uncommon, but they have been in hotels as well.
Hey mate, you're tilting at windmills. Chill with the hyperbole, it'll be ok.
I am not sure where you see hyperbole. Do you have an actual point to make?
> This is not “lol Paris” (or “lol AirBnB” like some say in other posts), this is a Europe-wide public health problem in the making.
> AFAICT the number of infestations grew 65% in a year in the UK. A couple of years at that rate and even if you’ve never seen any yet, you are likely to know them intimately.
These are both sentences written in a highly emotional tone, that is attempting to fear-monger. It's hyperbole. Your reply is also again terse and unnecessary, I'm not your enemy, calm down and take a day off the internet if it's getting to you. Have a good day man, take care of yourself.
Yep, I also went to Paris and got bit on the train, then in the hotel every night. They were also in the suitcase when I got home, but luckily I read up on how to deal with them and killed them all.
Lucky you! The only time I've had to deal with bedbugs was in the UK (Brighton, in winter) and getting rid of them was as much of a PITA as everybody says.
knowing the current french government, i would say their response is going to be:
1- create a green number with an automated response that tells you “you should have paid better attention”
2- blame immigrants
ps: this is not limited to paris , a friend of mine found one bug in her train near Cannes
So true. I am very very often on France and had to throw away my bed and couch in France and Germany because of those shitbugs. We tried products and professional help but they came back or where still there. Since we changed interior and take precautions when we travel they are gone. But it’s hell. Because I also rent apartments for holiday, that I own, and there I change the mattress regularly and everything else is leather now.
Many of my friend have them also. Didn’t realize it was a problem on national level but it feels like it. Btw Germany has them also .
Well I lived in Paris for three years, sat on countless metro/train seats, hotels, shared appartments, hostels, and I have never had an issue with bed bugs.
It mentions various downsides of bedbugs but doesn't mention blood borne diseases... Isn't that how it works, if it bit a guy with hepatitis then bit you, you will probably get it?
While bed bugs carry a lot of stigma, they are not disease carriers.
To date, no published study has demonstrated a causal relationship between bed bugs and infectious disease transmission in humans. Also, we present and propose to expand on previous hypotheses as to why bed bugs do not transmit human pathogens. Bed bugs may contain “neutralizing factors” that attenuate pathogen virulence and, thereby, decrease the ability of bed bugs to transmit infectious disease: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5007277/
This is awesome. Now I wonder if I'm similarly wrong about mosquitoes... (edit: those suckers do of course transmit, malaria and so on, but not sure about other diseases like hiv or hepatitis, haven't heard of mosquitoes as vector?)
Unfortunately not, they're considered "the world's deadliest animal"
https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/stories/2019/world-deadlies...
[Edit: posted before your edit. Bonus points for the "suckers" pun :) ]
I had bed bugs a 15 year ago while living in Bahrain. I had never heard of them or had any idea about what they were (in Italy, where I am from, they are not common at all) so when i started to notice bites all over my legs i did not know what i was facing. But: my sleep quality deteriorated, and with it my personal well being. So while it might be true that they do not bear diseases, if not taken care of they can severely affect your health anyway
Why would you rent your home out with the risk of bedbugs?
Homes? Nah they’re ‘investments’. I live in Brittany, France and new buyers, low earners etc are completely priced out of the market. My partner is a nurse and at her hospital they are closing wards because nurses, cleaners, healthcare assistants and even junior doctors can’t find, let alone afford accommodation.
Gonna go back to the days where the company owned your accommodation & you had a house as long as you had the job?
I'm hearing more and more about it. Company stores and company towns. Nope, nothing to learn from historically here at all.
It wasn't all bad.
In here The Company (a paper factory) guaranteed home loans for employees, a ton of people got dirt-cheap loans and paid off their homes in record time. My aunt still lives in one of those homes, they've been debt free since before the millennium.
It’s been a while since Airbnb rentals were actually a room in someone’s home and not an investment condo/home used as a full time rental.
Risk and reward.
You can rent out a property and have it go perfectly fine, sometimes you encounter Degens who trash the place.
The trick is minimising your risk upfront to get a better result.
Isn't this a sanitary/personal hygiene issue?
In what sense? Bed bugs don't care whether you're tidy or not, they drink your blood and hide during the day. You can have an absolutely spotless home and flawless personal hygiene and still have bedbugs living in your floorboards.
In the sense that washing your clothes and bedding at high temperature plus washing all the spots where the bed bugs could hide should keep them at distance.
The issue is that “all the spots where they could hide” is absolutely any kind of crack or tiny hole. Floorboards were mentioned, and you cannot really take that away to clean it each week. Same thing for wooden beds: those have lots of spaces where a bug can go but not much else, short of dismantling the whole thing. They can also be in sofas, bedside tables, cabinets, chairs… And these places are not dirty, they are just available space. Fumigation is a way of getting rid of them because otherwise it is impossible to access the places where they hide during the day.
No, it is not. They eat you, not your waste or byproducts. It is a human problem. Or do you think also for example that mosquitoes are a personal hygiene problem?
This is why I don't mind the spiders so much.
They do a really good job of vacuuming up the smaller insects around my home. You can tell how well they're working by the density of crap in their webs. I go out of my way to not harm them if possible. I used to spray for everything but I think that just makes things worse in the long run.